< Silencing the BPD >

< Messages posted to thread: >

< From Date >

< N 05-Jul-99 >

< O 05-Jul-99 >

< E.Goldstien 10-Jul-99 >

< 12-Jul-99 >

< My Two Cents 12-Jul-99 >

< 12-Jul-99 >

< E.Goldstien 12-Jul-99 >

< 12-Jul-99 >

< Oh Yeah! 13-Jul-99 >

< 13-Jul-99 >

< W.T. Door 13-Jul-99 >

< Just Curious 13-Jul-99 >

< Rodney 14-Jul-99 >

< To anybody 14-Jul-99 >

< JollyF-ingRodger 14-Jul-99 >

< E.Goldstien 14-Jul-99 >

< JollyF-ingRodger 14-Jul-99 >

< Skinner 14-Jul-99 >

< bLACK bEARD 14-Jul-99 >

< bpd 14-Jul-99 >

< observer 14-Jul-99 >

< To Observer 15-Jul-99 >

< Carmella 15-Jul-99 >

< To Carmella 15-Jul-99 >

< 2nd ward 15-Jul-99 >

< 15-Jul-99 >

< To Angry Boy 15-Jul-99 >

< To Angry Boy 15-Jul-99 >

< Clancy 15-Jul-99 >

< 15-Jul-99 >

< Oh Yeah! 15-Jul-99 >

< One who cares! 15-Jul-99 >

< 15-Jul-99 >

< Supporter 15-Jul-99 >

< To Angry Boy 15-Jul-99 >

< Wanderer 15-Jul-99 >

< Kojac 15-Jul-99 >

< ??? 15-Jul-99 >

< 16-Jul-99 >

< Simple minds 16-Jul-99 >

< 16-Jul-99 >

< Very Interesting! 16-Jul-99 >

< ALT 16-Jul-99 >

< Accuracy 16-Jul-99 >

< The Quiet One 16-Jul-99 >

< 16-Jul-99 >

< Just Curious 16-Jul-99 >

< clancy 16-Jul-99 >

< JollyF-ingRodger 16-Jul-99 >

< Badge68 16-Jul-99 >

< 16-Jul-99 >

< Chinese proverb 16-Jul-99 >

< The Quiet One 16-Jul-99 >

< The Quiet One 16-Jul-99 >

< 16-Jul-99 >

< 16-Jul-99 >

< Rodney 16-Jul-99 >

< E.Goldstien 17-Jul-99 >

< observer 17-Jul-99 >

< Rodney 18-Jul-99 >

< 18-Jul-99 >

< 20-Jul-99 >

< E.Goldstien 20-Jul-99 >

< E.Goldstien 20-Jul-99 >

< E.Goldstien 20-Jul-99 >

< RWB 20-Jul-99 >

< ~*Blue Willow*~ 20-Jul-99 >

< One who is concerned 20-Jul-99 >

< To the Officer who posted 20-Jul-99 >

< R 20-Jul-99 >

< 21-Jul-99 >

< One in Blue 21-Jul-99 >

< Question? 22-Jul-99 >

< Huh? 22-Jul-99 >

< Ouch! 22-Jul-99 >

< ouch! 22-Jul-99 >

< Wind In His Hair 23-Jul-99 >

< JollyF-ingRodger 23-Jul-99 >

< boob 23-Jul-99 >

< Tempest 23-Jul-99 >

< observer 23-Jul-99 >

< Thank you! 24-Jul-99 >

< JollyF-ingRodger 24-Jul-99 >

< Ha, Ha! 25-Jul-99 >

< JollyF-ingRodger 25-Jul-99 >

< Wind In His Hair 25-Jul-99 >

< Answer 26-Jul-99 >

< 26-Jul-99 >

< JollyF-ingRodger 26-Jul-99 >

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > N
< Date: 05-Jul-99 >

Thank you for responding about the vote count.

To the others: This issue was passed unanimously by the council members present. So if you disagree, it's either everyone on the council's fault, or no one's fault. And it's certainly not Gary, Art or Jim's "fault." !!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > O
< Date: 05-Jul-99 >

So how will this ordinance be enforced? Who will be monitoring the Police? Internal spies? And why was this ordinance desperately needed???

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > E.Goldstien
< Date: 10-Jul-99 >

"why was this ordinance desperately needed???" It wasn't, and as can be seen in court cases across the land (most recently this week here in NJ with the NJSP) these attempts to silence legitimate criticisms are mostly toothless. If slander or libel are involved discipline could be justified (as it should be) but if the matter concerns legitimate grievances it will be allowed (also as it should be). The first amendment is still ticking along despite the attempts that fools and tyrants make to weaken it. Any person or governmental body that shows a predilection to limit the free exchange of ideas/thoughts/speech should be regarded with the highest suspicion. Unfortunately the Bloomfield council seems to have been turning into a weak, petty, ineffective instrument for some time now. Is this truly the best Bloomfield can offer as a council, or merely some twisted popularity contest? We as citizens are becoming lazy, stupid and uninformed. All one needs to do is read the posts on these boards. Meanwhile our freedoms and rights are being thrown to the wayside in the name of safety, security or some other short-term goal. This is a shame. Hopefully we will wake up in time and be able to see the big picture. For this nation's future, I pray we do. In response to the following post (ironically posted on the 4th of July), please refer to my last paragraph.

"The vote was 6-0, Mrs Skinner was no at the meeting. Not a devided council at all. This resolution has been long overdue and despartely needed. Finally, legally the police department can be disciplined by the Chief or the council. The Chief won't but the council will."

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 12-Jul-99 >

TRUE, TRUE, TRUE. LET THE COUNCIL TRY TO "GAG" THE POLICE AND LET THEM TRY TO ENFORCE IT!!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > My Two Cents
< Date: 12-Jul-99 >

Is the Chief or the Council going to discipline the P.O. who recklessly shot at the dog? I have heard that Captain/Town Administrator Zawacki referred the matter to the Essex Prosecutor. Now that's a solution. Let someone who is drowning deal with incendiary Township problems. What a joke! What does Counselor Pirone have so say about this?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 12-Jul-99 >

I don't know all the facts, only what I read in the newspapers. But DID the officer shoot recklessly? Was he supposed to let the dog attack him?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > E.Goldstien
< Date: 12-Jul-99 >

"Is the Chief or the Council going to discipline the P.O. who recklessly shot at the dog?" Wow Two Cents, I guess you were there and know for a fact that the Officer shot recklessly. Or possibly you conducted your own investigation. Have you ever noticed that sentences that start with "I have heard" usually end up being completely ignorant? Any discharge of a Police Officer's weapon (with the exception of range practice) MUST be reported to the Prosecutor's office. This is policy and is done as a matter of course. Instead of hanging around waiting to hear something, perhaps you should take some initiative and attempt to educate yourself (and reading the gossip on these boards won't do it for you). Then your observations may be worth somewhat more then two cents. "incendiary Township problems" LOL

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 12-Jul-99 >

Bravo!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Oh Yeah!
< Date: 13-Jul-99 >

Obviously you were not at tonight's meeting! Everyone who was there kept repeating one thing: The officer recklessly endangered the lives of children. One more thing, if you are really trained to deal with attacking dogs in situations like this, you put out your arm and let the dog bite you. Then you shoot the dog. Stop defending incompetence at taxpayers expense. You are obviously the ignorant one.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 13-Jul-99 >

Most of prefer offering a good community activist to attacking dogs. They have a snarlier bite!

If one isn't available, hold out a cheap rug!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > W.T. Door
< Date: 13-Jul-99 >

"One more thing, if you are really trained to deal with attacking dogs in situations like this, you put out your arm and let the dog bite you." Which one are you Oh Yeah? Sigfreid or Roy? Such experts that post here. Do it that way and you only get 2 chances at it. I'am shooting the dog before he bites, so stay out of the way. Of course everyone kept saying the same thing, you didnt hear the second part though, it was "keep up the mantra, it will make the settlement bigger". You have got to love this country. Let your vicious dog run free...hit the lottery!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Just Curious
< Date: 13-Jul-99 >

Who made the claim that the dog was vicious?

This is not intended to belittle the officers involved, for the most part I believe we have some great people on the force, but it doesn't seem right that the officer in question discharged his weapon with so many people in close proximity. How would people judge the incident if the shooter had been a civilian? How would the police hace handled it?

Just Curious

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Rodney
< Date: 14-Jul-99 >

Good question. DeCarlo made a motion to suspend the officer with pay. Of course, this wasn't necessary since Zawacki was going to do that anyway. Perhaps some cultural sensitivity in the BPD would help matters. After all, officers here are not under siege. They don't work among savages. These are good people trying to do their best for their families. Let's show them some respect.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > To anybody
< Date: 14-Jul-99 >

why did DeCarlo or Jawacki have to handle the suspension? don't we pay a chief the big bucks for that? is he still in charge?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > JollyF-ingRodger
< Date: 14-Jul-99 >

Yup, they discussed disciplining this township employee in a public forum. Going to be a hoot when they have to add him to the list of people the township has to pay in all the lawsuits. Election year politics are the best don't ya think?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > E.Goldstien
< Date: 14-Jul-99 >

Who made the claim that the dog was vicious? In one of the Star-Ledger articles about this incident a juvenile involved reports "that although the dog shocked officers when it charged out of the building, Chances is a friendly dog that would never attack anyone. The dog was aroused by the crowd and a car alarm that was set off WHEN HE AND ONE OF THE OFFICERS RETREATED TO A CAR HOOD WHEN THE DOG CHARGED OUT". He also says that he walks the dog every day with the owner. So OK the word vicious is not used. But I have to ask, Why is this kid jumping up on the car hood to get away from this friendly (110 lb, German Shepard-Rottweiler mix) dog that would never attack anyone?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > JollyF-ingRodger
< Date: 14-Jul-99 >

Whoa! Just read Oh Yeah's post above. Let the dog bite you!?!? I don't know...but I guess he is the animal expert. Hey Oh Yeah..drawing on your experience and training in such matters let me ask you. How do you handle a ferocious cock?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Skinner
< Date: 14-Jul-99 >

Makes You want to work for the Township Huh. They don't sit around praising employees when they do a good job though.The Essex County Prosecutors Office cleared the officer on the shooting, that say's it all doesn't it. What is next you arrest a council persons relative and we then suspend the officer and take away his gun. You people are out of control.If the officer was in fear for his safety then he had a right to shoot. Also where do all you people get off saying that the street was full of people it was the four youths,the dog owner and the dog. I still can't believe that township council members discussed this situation and the possible suspension of an employee in public after he was cleared by the Essex County Prosecutor.Who is in charge at one police plaza the council? Another situation blown out of proportion by the wonderful citizens of "OUR TOWN".

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > bLACK bEARD
< Date: 14-Jul-99 >

HIT IT ON THE F----ING HEAD!!!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > bpd
< Date: 14-Jul-99 >

B- BEST

P- POLICE

D- DEPARTMENT

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > observer
< Date: 14-Jul-99 >

To Skinner.

Don't put the blame on the whole council. It was Councilman DeCarlo who made an issue of it at the meeting and made the motion to suspend the officer involved.

Also, please don't blame citizens for having concerns. In most cases the public has only limited information. What they did know was that an officer discharge his weapon and innocent people were hurt. For most of us that is a cuase for concern.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > To Observer
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

If there was an officer around to protect my 9 year-old cousin who was bitten by a dog and pushed out into on-coming traffic MAYBE he wouldn't have been hit by the car and MAYBE he would still be alive today.

Observer, things in life happen and an officer's job is to protect and he or she must make a split second decision - its a judgment call out there and its unfortunate that kids were hurt but when the officer discharged his weapon it was not his intention to hurt "innocent people." Some people just don't get it...

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Carmella
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

I'm with you. It's way too easy to criticize when you don't know the facts. So far I've heard it was "two or three or four" shots. Which was it? My cousin is a cop in Newark. He says this is routine. Whenever an officer fires a gun, there is an investigation as to why, was it proper, etc. Leave it to the sick-os in Bloomfield to try to turn this in to an election issue. You chicken-hearts should get out from behind your computers and see what real men (and women) are doing for you every day to protect you and your homes so you can sit on your butts and exercise your right to freedom of speech!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > To Carmella
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

Stop defending incompetents who get paid for "protecting" us. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen! What gives you the right to criticize hard-working taxpayers who are outraged by the shooting incident? The point is that this officer has had other problems with the community residents in question. The Star Ledger reported only one side of the story. And what do you men by "real men and women"? I guess shooting and then asking is routine is Newark. This is not Newark.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > 2nd ward
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

Bloomfield's not Newark? You sure? You can take the bad boyz out of Newark, but you can't take Newark out of the bad boyz. That's where all our fantastic politicians migrated from, isn't it?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

Are all of the council candidates "hard-working taxpayers?"

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > To Angry Boy
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

Sounds like you have a "personal problem" with this particular officer... and I believe the Constitution gives me (and anyone else like Carmella) the right to criticize "hard-working arm-chair quarterbacks" like you!

To Carmella - the men and women have it tough in Newark - I applaud them for the work they do. (Just listen to their scanner and you'll get an idea of what an average night is like.)

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > To Angry Boy
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

... here is a clear cut example of someone "who doesn't get it at all!!!"

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Clancy
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

Leave it the people to make it a political issue.The politician uses it for his own reward(don't forget Dennis is running for relection in November). Rumor has it that they took the gun away but are now going to return it. What is going on here? They never should have taken the gun in the first place. The cop did nothing wrong so said the Essex County Prosecutor. What is going on down at the police station?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

The BPD has no leadership. Where is the chief in all of this? Hiding, no doubt.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Oh Yeah!
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

When DD's kid got jumped at the high school I heard he kept making a pest of himself at the police dept trying to get info that would have been illegal for them to give him. Maybe besides the obvious pandering for votes he is still pissy that they did not kiss his royal ass.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > One who cares!
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

To all the men and women in the BPD remember:

It took you years to build up trust, and only suspicion, not proof, to destroy it!!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

Since when is a taxpayer making a pest of himself when a crime has been committed. You must be a police officer. Let's remind you that the taxpayers pay the bill for the police department - you and several of your ilk have forgotten that fact. I applaude the councils actions - it calmed the crowd, the officer involved will have his day, and the police department will be better off for it. What you simple minds can't comprehend is the actions taken by the council were before the determination by the prosecutor. Also, why wasn't the Chief or Acting Chief at the meeting to support the officer. And why did the President of the PBA suddenly disappear. He was scheduled to speak but suddenly lost his nerve. So much for Brotherly love in the department. The officer got no support from his superiors. The action taken was right - what would have happened if the officer involved found himself in a situation where he had to draw his gun in the same neighborhood. Even if he were right he would have be critized and villified and most definetly lost his job. The action of the council save the neighborhood, the officers job and if anything comes of this insident it will be something good. If the police department cannot see this than they indeed are the most ignorant group of people in Bloomfield. As for DD as you refer to Councilman DeCarlo I can only guess at the fact that he must have empathized with the parents of the children hit by the schrapnel after what happened to his daughter. For you to make something out of the children or to insult any parent who wants information about a crime involving their child shows your lack of compassion or empathy, and indeed if you are a police officer your gun should be removed immediately also.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Supporter
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

Sometimes the people you expect to kick you when you're down will be the ones who do!!!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > To Angry Boy
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

May I remind you that POLICE OFFICERS pay taxes too!!!

You act like YOU ALONE have a personal say regarding the police because you "pay taxes." (Plus I got tired of reading your long thread - you need to check your spelling!!) Stop your crying!!! Next subject!!!!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Wanderer
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

Hey, you people that write in this column don't put a name in the FROM column. Is it because they are afraid that shomeone may see the stupidity of what they have to say or are they afraid of a rebuttle. If people can't respond to what you have to say then what you say is all Blah Blah Blah. Note: If you really don't know what you are talking about and you don't have all the facts right the best thing to do is S H U T U P !!!!!!!!!!!!!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Kojac
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

That was one heck of a letter from Galioto in the papers this week! Who does this guy think he is? Serpico? Personally I hope every police officer just laughs and ignores him. He's looking for another 15-minutes of fame. Don't give it to him.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > ???
< Date: 15-Jul-99 >

What day was this in the Ledger?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

Using the incident regarding the attack of public figure's child as negative campaign strategy is a clear sign of the Marionettes. Its what they do best.

The only people who would get defensive about him getting the facts might be the BOE members that turned their heads to their illegal student platform when it hit close to home! The word all over the street is that "somebody" wasn't a legal guardian and the one of the attackers was in the schools illegally and never had the proper papers to justify enrollment!

Hold it! A vision is coming through! Could all this be why DD was dropped from the GOP line? Odd that BOE members are publicly campaigning against him, huh?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Simple minds
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

Glad that you (5 posts up) applaude (applaud) the councils actions. Hope you applaud them when they have to write a check to the officer for the suit that will probably follow. To take an improper and most likely an illegal action to calm the crowd seems counterproductive.The rule of law should be followed, not how people feel. What your simple mind does not know is that this action was not taken before a determination by the Prosecutor's office, they were present and involved the night of the incident. Cleared the officer to carry a weapon and go back to work.The council knew this, didnt tell you and decided to put on a show. This is election year kiss ass to get the vote stuff and they sucked you right in. The PBA Prez lose his nerve? Never known it to be the case. Probably went to call the lawyer.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

Using the incident regarding the attack of public figure's child as negative campaign strategy is a clear sign of the Marionettes. Its what they do best.

The only people who would get defensive about him getting the facts might be the BOE members that turned their heads to their illegal student platform when it hit close to home! The word all over the street is that "somebody" wasn't a legal guardian and the one of the attackers was in the schools illegally and never had the proper papers to justify enrollment!

Hold it! A vision is coming through! Could all this be why DD was dropped from the GOP line? Odd that BOE members are publicly campaigning against him, huh?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Very Interesting!
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

I think above who stated posters are not using a name in the From space is probably because they like to confuse people, use personal names of people who are not the posters, steal other penned names, so anyone who believes the poster's name is the actual person writing had better get a life!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > ALT
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

So the Council KNEW about the findings of the Prosecutor's Office and decided to PLAY DUMB?!! Sounds like the Council was just trying to stir up trouble!!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Accuracy
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

Don't blame the whole council. DeCarlo started this by grandstanding for the crowd.. Up until then the Mayor had said that he would be willing to talk to the residents involved when ALL the information was in.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > The Quiet One
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

Did the Council accomplish anything that night?

When an officer discharges his weapon in the State of NJ aren't there formal procedures that are to be followed? Does the the local town council has any jurisdiction in such a matter or were they just overstepping their boundaries? (Enlighten me!!)

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

I am sure you will all agree it was and is a very touchy subject. But remember, there are two sides to every story and you on heard one side at the meeting. Let's be adults about this and wait and see what takes place. I'm sure it will be done in the proper manner.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Just Curious
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

What will be done in the proper manner?

The Council already voted to suspend the officer involved.

Just Curious

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > clancy
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

let's get this straight okay. Prosecutors office did clear the shooting night of. Gun was given back when he returned to duty. Town council did vote and discuss employee in public. Now rumor is gun was taken and given back already what's the deal.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > JollyF-ingRodger
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

Whats done is done and it was done improperly by the council. It is all over but the lawsuits! Of course there are formal procedures to be followed when an officer discharges a weapon. They were followed in this incident.The council (the whole council. None of them stood up and stopped it) decided to feed their self importance, play the race card and go for the votes!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Badge68
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

A view from the inside: The council was right in its actions - we have a chief who does nothing about dicipline, and the men walk allover him. We get away with murder. The children were in close poxsimity when the dog attacked - no weapon should have been fired, period. the officer inquestion acted irresponisbliy and should be required to take sensitivity training, not to mention some extra time on the fireing range.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

Is the joker who posted as Badge68 a cop? I doubt it. Is he the one in the Bloomfield Police Department who has been secretly meeting with the FBI? Heard it was a patrolman who i not too Bright - that cold be anyone of them.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Chinese proverb
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

A rumour goes in one ear and out many mouths!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > The Quiet One
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

I don't believe "Badge 68" would risk losing his job and his PENSION!!!! Too much $$$$ to risk there!!! It must be the janitor!! I say we "86" this one!! Don't buy it for one minute - must be someone's PUPPET!!!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > The Quiet One
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

I don't believe "Badge 68" would risk losing his job and his PENSION!!!! Too much $$$$ to risk there!!! It must be the janitor!! I say we "86" this one!! Don't buy it for one minute - must be someone's PUPPET!!!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

Badge 68 is Dick Galioto. He can not be more transparent. What a scum bag..

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

Badge 68 is Dick Galioto. He can not be more transparent. What a scum bag..

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Rodney
< Date: 16-Jul-99 >

Can we just get along? I don't like the threats several of you are making, especially that cop saying that the P.O. who caused all this trouble is going to sue the town. That's a form of blackmail! The town should not be sued for an officer's stupidity. I agree that DeCarlo was grandstanding. It was pretty obvious. I also feel that the Mayor acted properly. He does not want another nasty lawsuit. Playing the race card? Well, let's see. The blacks in that audience are ten times better educated than most Council members. They also vote and pay taxes. How many of our terrific cops have a college education? Eight? Ten? How many of our terrific police officers, lieutenants or captains live in town? Pay taxes? Back in 1997, I was at a party when I heard this Lt. saying that he didn't want his boys studying with "savages" at Bloomfield High? And we are paying this guy's salary. Thank you for thinking that our children are savages. That's why we think so highly of most of you.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > E.Goldstien
< Date: 17-Jul-99 >

Grow up Rodney! No matter what the council did some of the involved parties are going to sue the town. Did you have any doubts about that? By grandstanding the way they did, trying to discipline a township employee in public, they acted improperly and pretty much ensured yet another lawsuit. This is not blackmail but a right we have to redress wrongs. Procedures are in place for these types of incidents and were being followed. How you "feel" about what was done does not really count. What the law says is what matters, being so well educated you should know this and so should the council. These puppetheads decided to attempt (unsuccessfully) to shortcut that, that is going to cost the taxpayers. Maybe the citizens should get more involved earlier and pick their representatives carefully. Voter turnouts in Bloomfield are pitifully small. If people don't care enough to spend the time to vote wisely, they should not be surprised with the quality of service they get. Say what you wish about the Officer involved, I know him. He is a good Officer with a good record and dedicated to Bloomfield. You were not there, nor was I. From what I understand of it I probably would have reacted the same. Can't say for sure it's a split second decision. That makes it easy for people to second guess and Monday morning quarterback or for racists to turn into a black/white issue. To refer to the action as stupidity without firsthand knowledge is ignorant. I am a Bloomfield Cop. I do the best I can for this job, I am proud of the job I do.Yeah I went to college but this job will give you another education entirely. Maybe some of your great minds ought to come and give it a try, it would give you another perspective on things. C'mon the test is not that hard and I would be glad to have you. Maybe you could make a difference, but I guess it is just easier to sit and cry about things. People are making political hay out of this using race, children and what ever else they can exploit. "Can we just get along?" I pray that we can, but too many have too much wrapped up in making sure we never do.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > observer
< Date: 17-Jul-99 >

It's too bad that with all the controversy over one officer's imprudent dischage of his weapon that the swearing in of five new Bloomfield police officers was totally overshadowed and overlooked.

So, congratulations to the five. Hope you will do yourselves, your family and the town proud by doing the best job you can. Have a safe tour.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Rodney
< Date: 18-Jul-99 >

Goldstein or a.k.a. well-educated Lt. Don't lecture me about voting for idiots. You were also voting and campaigning back in November. Don't you remember? Yes, you are right. We have awful candidates and voters who don't give a damn until something happens to their kids, friends or relatives. I was merely bringing up an important issue which you so condescendingly trivialized. I live and pay taxes here. Like everyone else, I want to live in peace and feel protected by those whom we pay to protect us. I'm not questioning the fact that law enforcement, like any other job that involves dealing with people, is difficult. I was not there, but I spoke to many of the neighbors and witnesses. I guess everyone is a liar except the officer involved in this unfortunate situation. There are two sides to every story. And we the taxpayers should not be forced to bear the costs of someone's questionable behavior.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 18-Jul-99 >

To Rodney: Well said, as a taxpayer also, I want to trust the police to do their jobs and to do it right. One incident should not mean that we cannot trust the police. Afterall, when we really need them we want them ASAP. We have not heard the whole story from the police side or the County Prosecutor report. The Prosecutor was at the scene at the time of the incident. As fo rthe Council's decision I have to agree with them for several reasons. 1. it had the effect of calminng the neighborhood by the fact they took action. 2. It did not hurt the police officer involved - he was mearly taken off patrol and his weapon surrendered until the report of the Prosecutor. It didn't blame anyone pending the report from the prosecutor and our own chief of Police. Personally, I think it took a lot of courage for the Council to act as it did. I'm really surprised that this Mayor supported the rest of the Council. Lets see what developes in the next week before we pass judgement.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 20-Jul-99 >

Thanks for the promotion Rodney, but I am not a boss. Actually it may be a demotion, a few months back when I last posted on one of these threads they thought I was a Captain. Nope I am just a grunt. Surprising as it may be to you some of us can actually form a coherent thought. About the campaigning, wrong again. First I have not run across too many politicians I would feel strongly enough to work for. Secondly I have a problem with the idea of officers campaigning for politicians running for office in the town they work for. I don't know how many witnesses you spoke with. Could not have been too many though as there were not many to start with. I am not saying anyone is a liar. I am saying that a split second decision was made under stress when the Officer felt threatened. Yes, I know there are two sides to every story (often more then two) and that is how I look at things and try to reason them out. I posted earlier about what one of the involved parties said to the paper. seems like a clear contradiction. There is more but it cannot be gone into here. To try to turn this into a racial matter is wrong and disgusts me.To lynch that Officer for all the perceived wrongs that people have of the BPD is also wrong! Make no mistake, that is part of what this council is trying. Could this all have been avoided? Absolutely, a whole set of circumstances led up to this event, plenty of blame to go around. A little common sense early on would have done the trick. But it didn't happen that way. The Officer was forced into a bad position and took the action he felt necessary. Can one predict where every bullet fragment or fragment of what is hit is going to go? Of course not. Anyone that has spent any time on a range knows that, you get hit with fragments. If you had to stop to consider that you would probably never fire. One has to weigh the risks against the intended outcome and know if the action conforms to policy. All in a moment. Every Officer has had to consider facing that decision. Many will admit having nightmares about it. The decision to pull the trigger is not one I think any of our Officers take lightly and I think looking back at our track record will bear that out. But ya know what? I do not see too many (any?) posts about the thousands of correct decisions our Officers make every year. Ya know what else? I would be willing to bet that a lot of the people complaining about this would take the same action if put in the same circumstances. It is a survival/human nature thing. As far as taxpayers bearing the costs of others questionable behavior, we do it every day (welfare, unemployment, foreign aid, presidential indiscretions) that is one reasons taxes are so high. This incident is undoubtedly also going to cost the taxpayers. For the events of that evening and for the questionable actions of the council. Feeling that the council did the right thing is not enough, it has to be lawful, they may have a problem there. Think about it. As part of a gov't agency do you want me as an Officer making decisions about arrests, charges, use of force, etc based on how I feel? Or would you rather it was based on the laws written about such things. The post after yours says something like "they merely took his weapon." Well, part of our income is from side jobs. by "merely" taking away that weapon you interfere with our making a living. If your going to do that it had better be with due process. To "calm the crowd" does not cut it. I don't know why they settled for that anyway, didn't they come to ask that he be fired? Would you have "felt" that was right? A lot can be learned from this by all of us. Yes it is a difficult job. Often times made harder by the lack of cooperation, lies, disrespect and sometimes assaults we endure. Oh well that is part of the job. If we don't always have what you think is the proper attitude, Oh well that is human nature. I am sure you are not always at 100 percent either. Bloomfield is a good town. We can work together, recognize the good as well as the bad, work on what needs working on and try to have a good life. Or we can complain and be bitter. Only reacting when it fits some agenda. Then we can watch our town go the route of many others. I promise to do my best. How about the rest of you? Thanks for your time, I kinda dragged on here but I hope it offers another perspective. If parts of it sounded condescending or less then polite I apologize, it was not the intention but I also have strong feelings about the matter. Take care.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > E.Goldstien
< Date: 20-Jul-99 >

Thanks for the promotion Rodney, but I am not a boss. Actually it may be a demotion, a few months back when I last posted on one of these threads they thought I was a Captain. Nope I am just a grunt. Surprising as it may be to you some of us can actually form a coherent thought. About the campaigning,wrong again. First I have not run across too many politicians I would feel strongly enough to work for. Secondly I have a problem with the idea of officers campaigning for politicians running for office in the town they work for. I don't know how many witnesses you spoke with. Could not have been too many though as there were not many to start with. I am not saying anyone is a liar. I am saying that a split second decision was made under stress when the Officer felt threatened. Yes, I know there are two sides to every story (often more then two) and that is how I look at things and try to reason them out. I posted earlier about what one of the involved parties said to the paper. seems like a clear contradiction. There is more but it cannot be gone into here. To try to turn this into a racial matter is wrong and disgusts me.To lynch that Officer for all the perceived wrongs that people have of the BPD is also wrong! Make no mistake, that is part of what this council is trying. Could this all have been avoided? Absolutely, a whole set of circumstances led up to this event, plenty of blame to go around. A little common sense early on would have done the trick. But it didn't happen that way. The Officer was forced into a bad position and took the action he felt necessary. Can one predict where every bullet fragment or fragment of what is hit is going to go? Of course not. Anyone that has spent any time on a range knows that, you get hit with fragments. If you had to stop to consider that you would probably never fire. One has to weigh the risks against the intended outcome and know if the action conforms to policy. All in a moment. Every Officer has had to consider facing that decision. Many will admit having nightmares about it. The decision to pull the trigger is not one I think any of our Officers take lightly and I think looking back at our track record will bear that out. But ya know what? I do not see too many (any?) posts about the thousands of correct decisions our Officers make every year. Ya know what else? I would be willing to bet that a lot of the people complaining about this would take the same action if put in the same circumstances. It is a survival/human nature thing. As far as taxpayers bearing the costs of others questionable behavior, we do it every day (welfare, unemployment, foreign aid, presidential indiscretions) that is one reason taxes are so high. This incident is undoubtedly also going to cost the taxpayers. For the events of that evening and for the questionable actions of the council. Feeling that the council did the right thing is not enough, it has to be lawful, they may have a problem there. Think about it. As part of a gov't agency do you want me as an Officer making decisions about arrests, charges, use of force, etc based on how I feel? Or would you rather it was based on the laws written about such things. The post after yours says something like "they merely took his weapon." Well, part of our income is from side jobs. by "merely" taking away that weapon you interfere with our making a living. If your going to do that it had better be with due process. To "calm the crowd" does not cut it. I don't know why they settled for that anyway, didn't they come to ask that he be fired? Would you have "felt" that was right? A lot can be learned from this by all of us. Yes it is a difficult job. Often times made harder by the lack of cooperation, lies, disrespect and sometimes assaults we endure. Oh well that is part of the job. If we don't always have what you think is the proper attitude, Oh well that is human nature. I am sure you are not always at 100 percent either. Bloomfield is a good town. We can work together, recognize the good as well as the bad, work on what needs working on and try to have a good life. Or we can complain and be bitter. Only reacting when it fits some agenda. Then we can watch our town go the route of many others. I promise to do my best. How about the rest of you? Thanks for your time, I kinda dragged on here but I hope it offers another perspective. If parts of it sounded condescending or less then polite I apologize, it was not the intention but I also have strong feelings about the matter. Take care.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > E.Goldstien
< Date: 20-Jul-99 >

Thanks for the promotion Rodney, but I am not a boss. Actually it may be a demotion, a few months back when I last posted on one of these threads they thought I was a Captain. Nope I am just a grunt. Surprising as it may be to you some of us can actually form a coherent thought. About the campaigning,wrong again. First I have not run across too many politicians I would feel strongly enough to work for. Secondly I have a problem with the idea of officers campaigning for politicians running for office in the town they work for. I don't know how many witnesses you spoke with. Could not have been too many though as there were not many to start with. I am not saying anyone is a liar. I am saying that a split second decision was made under stress when the Officer felt threatened. Yes, I know there are two sides to every story (often more then two) and that is how I look at things and try to reason them out. I posted earlier about what one of the involved parties said to the paper. seems like a clear contradiction. There is more but it cannot be gone into here. To try to turn this into a racial matter is wrong and disgusts me.To lynch that Officer for all the perceived wrongs that people have of the BPD is also wrong! Make no mistake, that is part of what this council is trying. Could this all have been avoided? Absolutely, a whole set of circumstances led up to this event, plenty of blame to go around. A little common sense early on would have done the trick. But it didn't happen that way. The Officer was forced into a bad position and took the action he felt necessary. Can one predict where every bullet fragment or fragment of what is hit is going to go? Of course not. Anyone that has spent any time on a range knows that, you get hit with fragments. If you had to stop to consider that you would probably never fire. One has to weigh the risks against the intended outcome and know if the action conforms to policy. All in a moment. Every Officer has had to consider facing that decision. Many will admit having nightmares about it. The decision to pull the trigger is not one I think any of our Officers take lightly and I think looking back at our track record will bear that out. But ya know what? I do not see too many (any?) posts about the thousands of correct decisions our Officers make every year. Ya know what else? I would be willing to bet that a lot of the people complaining about this would take the same action if put in the same circumstances. It is a survival/human nature thing. As far as taxpayers bearing the costs of others questionable behavior, we do it every day (welfare, unemployment, foreign aid, presidential indiscretions) that is one reason taxes are so high. This incident is undoubtedly also going to cost the taxpayers. For the events of that evening and for the questionable actions of the council. Feeling that the council did the right thing is not enough, it has to be lawful, they may have a problem there. Think about it. As part of a gov't agency do you want me as an Officer making decisions about arrests, charges, use of force, etc based on how I feel? Or would you rather it was based on the laws written about such things. The post after yours says something like "they merely took his weapon." Well, part of our income is from side jobs. by "merely" taking away that weapon you interfere with our making a living. If your going to do that it had better be with due process. To "calm the crowd" does not cut it. I don't know why they settled for that anyway, didn't they come to ask that he be fired? Would you have "felt" that was right? A lot can be learned from this by all of us. Yes it is a difficult job. Often times made harder by the lack of cooperation, lies, disrespect and sometimes assaults we endure. Oh well that is part of the job. If we don't always have what you think is the proper attitude, Oh well that is human nature. I am sure you are not always at 100 percent either. Bloomfield is a good town. We can work together, recognize the good as well as the bad, work on what needs working on and try to have a good life. Or we can complain and be bitter. Only reacting when it fits some agenda. Then we can watch our town go the route of many others. I promise to do my best. How about the rest of you? Thanks for your time, I kinda dragged on here but I hope it offers another perspective. If parts of it sounded condescending or less then polite I apologize, it was not the intention but I also have strong feelings about the matter. Take care.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > E.Goldstien
< Date: 20-Jul-99 >

Ooops!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > RWB
< Date: 20-Jul-99 >

Just so you know how some of us feel. I for one think you made some excellent points. Anyone that thinks an officer straps on a gun and does not have serious concerns about the day he will have to draw that gun is not thinking straight. There are a lot of us who respect what the BPD is doing and stand behind them. The council made a mistake on this one.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > ~*Blue Willow*~
< Date: 20-Jul-99 >

Wow, you people sure can talk, if all of Bloomfield's BPD is sooooo terribly tragic why don't you move? Go to like....Wyoming or Montana or something. I'm sure its much safer there and you don't have to worry or WHINE about the Police department that trying hard to ensure your sefety night after night.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > One who is concerned
< Date: 20-Jul-99 >

I have read the previous postings and can not help but to feel the bitterness in some people. First, I live in Town. Second, I pay taxes too. Third and foremost I am a cop. The incident with the dog is truly one that I am sure the officer involved wished he were never in. I, also being a father, would be fuming mad if anyone injured my child, especially with a hand gun. But I know that this officer did not intend to injure anyone but the dog. To have anyone believe that this was intentional because of race is totally ludicrous. It was unfortunate for all involved. There was never any type of cover up of the facts, as was reported in the Star-Ledger, this department was open and honest with ALL that were provided information regarding this incident. The action taken by having the officers weapon taken away were totally uncalled for. It clearly led the officer to believe that the governing body did not have any faith in him. Much worse than this, this action leads the rest of us who are out there every day and night, to question the action we have to take. And this questioning takes time. If we have to stop and think about what we are going to do, where the use of force or deadly force may be involved, the time it takes to do this could cost us more than our job. So I truly hope and pray that this doesn't happen, but if one of our officers is placed in a situation where he has to use his weapon and takes the time to think about it and during this time he is injured or killed it will be comforting for some to know that he did't act with haste, had taken his time and made everyone happy, except maybe for his family and co-workers. To second guess a cop on the street when you sit back, read the papers and sip your coffee is an injustice to the officer and the Department in general. You can rest assured that if this incident was totally mishandled the Essex County Prosecutor would be on top of our Department like ants and the public would know about it. Give the officer and us a break. It's tough enough without the constant criticsm from arm chair quarterbacks. Bloomfield is still a good place to live we, the police, truly try to serve the people as best as possible. Try just a little to be open minded. Don't be blinded by race, politics and bitterness and we will all be better off. ( Sorry about going on so long, I could have said more )

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > To the Officer who posted
< Date: 20-Jul-99 >

Hi. Don't let local source and its sour grapes get you down. Lots of people who post here just like to complain...about everything. They're salivating at the thought of bashing the police department. But, when I speak to other people, neighbors and friends and parents of my children's friends, they all have said "THANK GOD FOR THE POLICE" and understand that you all have to make split-second decisions and that you're not infallable. I don't know if this officer made a mistake; but I am POSITIVE he did what he thought he had to do at that moment. It's easy to be an arm-chair quarterback with 20/20 hindsight. Most of us never have to walk in your shoes, so who are we to criticize you? Thank you for all you and your brothers & sisters in blue do to keep the rest of us safe.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > R
< Date: 20-Jul-99 >

I think all of the postings above are eloquent. People will always judge based on the "limited" evidence available to them. If some of us who are not thugs or racists question an officer's actions, we do it out of deep concern for our Bloomfield community. Are we attacking the Police Department, I don't think so. Some of us wanted to get at the bottom of this matter. This is America and we have the right to question authority when we feel that authority oversteps its bounds or turns into a dictatorship. No harm intended by asking questions. Goldstein, thanks for responding.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 21-Jul-99 >

To: EG and the other officer: Very well said!! Thank you both for taking the time to respond. I just want you to know that there are people in Bloomfield who care and understand the job that you and other officers do on a daily basis 24/7!! We appreciate it each and every day! Some people really don't want to take the time to understand what your job entails or the stress of being on the job. Thank you for your insight! Thank you for the job you do!!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > One in Blue
< Date: 21-Jul-99 >

I find this very comedic, as you can tell I am a Bloomfiel police officer. I am Married with children and just as much as anyone share concerns for our children. However,in my numerous years of experience, I have had to make several split second decicions none of which were based upon the race , color or creed of the particular person(s) invoved. This particular incident was reviewed and cleared by the prosecutors office and the Bloomfield police dept. So my question is; how can the council vote on something that was already cleared by the authority that oversees all Essex county police departments? Is the council more qualified to judge Police matters then the prosecutors office? Now there's a laugh for you. The township council made a hasty decision based on pressure from a select group of people, not based on the facts at hand. That is why the council quickly backed down from their decision and let the officer involved go back to doing the job he was trained to do. For all the Monday morning quaterbacks out there---- walk a mile in a police officer's shoes, make life and death decisions in a split second, put your life at risk everytime you put your uniform on and go to work, then come back to me and let me know how well you did.

p.s. I am a Bloomfield taxpayer

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Question?
< Date: 22-Jul-99 >

Did anyone check to see if this dog had his Rabbi shots and has a license?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Huh?
< Date: 22-Jul-99 >

I didn't know the dog was Jewish.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Ouch!
< Date: 22-Jul-99 >

Was he circumcised?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > ouch!
< Date: 22-Jul-99 >

Was he circumcised?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Wind In His Hair
< Date: 23-Jul-99 >

The word is "rabies."

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > JollyF-ingRodger
< Date: 23-Jul-99 >

The word is "rabies." He said so rabidly.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > boob
< Date: 23-Jul-99 >

leave the cops alone,I got a ticket the other day and the cop was a nice guy.Ya know what Im a man of color.later

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Tempest
< Date: 23-Jul-99 >

I think this thread should be put to rest. I think it's time to leave judgment of the police up to their supervisers and Internal Affairs. Who are we to criticize the police? The men and women who take jobs in law enforcement deserve a lot more credit and respect than we give them. Today's world seems so eager to find fault with the people we hire to protect us. And why? "Cause my taxes pay your salary!" That line is getting pretty damn old. It seems whenever there is a shooting, use of force (deadly or not), or any other instance where the officer's judgment may be called into question we are so ready to scream Police Brutality or swap stories of bad police experience that we miss the facts. I'm not saying that the police are perfect, I'm just saying that we should put ourselves in their shoes once in a while. Better yet, get to know a cop, they're really not half bad.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > observer
< Date: 23-Jul-99 >

Anyone who has the power of life or death strapped to their belt had better be more than "not half bad".

Also, no one should be above critisism because of the nature of their job. We do pay the police salaries and are owed some accounability for that. Ther are always people in jobs who don't belong there and they should not be tolerated by their peers or by us.

None of the above is directed at anyone in particular, it is just posted as a commentary.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Thank you!
< Date: 24-Jul-99 >

Thank you observer. As you state, "no one shold be above criticism beause of the nature of their job." Let's not make cops mythical creatures. They are as flawed as the rest of us.

Keep the postings going as long as they don't become libelous or vulgar.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > JollyF-ingRodger
< Date: 24-Jul-99 >

This thread has gotten entirely too serious. Time for a little levity! Especially when us same 25 to 30 LOSERS are the only ones posting or reading this pointless drivel. OK here we go!...Q. Why are they having trouble finding JFK Jr's plane? A. Because his flight actions constitute wreckless behavior.....Get it? Wreckless! get it? hahaha...well ok I am a little late with that one. I will try to be more timely from here on in.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Ha, Ha!
< Date: 25-Jul-99 >

I fail to see the humor. How about telling us a joke? Any jokes about Town Council?

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > JollyF-ingRodger
< Date: 25-Jul-99 >

Jokes about the council...Hmmm...nope, don't see how I could come up with any thing better then they have done themselves.

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Wind In His Hair
< Date: 25-Jul-99 >

OK, how about this one!!!!!

How many T-Council People does it take to screw in a litebulb???????

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > Answer
< Date: 26-Jul-99 >

5, at least for now. The other 2 need the rest of their county commitee to find the bulb!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: >
< Date: 26-Jul-99 >

And it'll be a dim bulb. Count on that!

< Subject: RE: Silencing the BPD >
< From: > JollyF-ingRodger
< Date: 26-Jul-99 >

Ya call that funny?!? Thats not funny. This is funny...JFK Jr had not been to the Vineyard for quite awhile. Do you know what he missed the most about it? THE RUNWAY!!! Hahahahah snort snort Ha! Now thats funny!